Dispute on “MOULD EFFECT” (Chain Fountain)

Kommentarer 

  1. ElectroBOOM

    ElectroBOOM

    4 dagar sedan

    Thanks to @SteveMould for battling this out with me! Every time I feel I know something a debate like this shatters some of my thoughts and makes me think harder. Make sure to check Steve's video: se-one.info/cycle/prmBhpt5rZCMjJU/video . I may have to revisit this to close some gaps in my arguments. I still think I'm right though! So... I'm a winner at heart!

    • Matt Stroker

      Matt Stroker

      3 timmar sedan

      Between 7:35 and 7:40 you are stating some supposed facts and then you end with "which is impossible". Could you please refrain from such profanities and rephrase them as follows: yada yada yada, which currently seems to be impossible based on our current understanding. No current needs to be involved. Thank you.

    • Andrei Dan Iacovache

      Andrei Dan Iacovache

      4 timmar sedan

      If Steve is right shouldn't regular chains (non bead chains) have the same effect? Every link would be an actual lever in this case which would make the effect stronger than the lever created by twisting ball chains.

    • keeperofthegood

      keeperofthegood

      4 timmar sedan

      You missed out at a crucial first moment when you demonstrated fall rate against a battery.

    • Lammot

      Lammot

      8 timmar sedan

      I was thinking, doesn't this effect remind you of a wave traveling through a piece of garden hose or a whip? Just like a reverse one? Not the wave traveling through a line, but a line traveling through a wave. Sort of. And since, as stated before, via some magic the chain drops faster than gravity, this means that energy is being supplied in the system and the only way it can go to - increase the wave amplitude (height of the fountain)? Regarding the question why some chains rise while others do not - it probably has to do with how much energy-efficient a chain is at changing shapes. The ball one is super-efficient and does not lose a lot of energy on changing shapes, while the classical one is junky which probably leads to an energy loss that eats most of the extra energy. This can probably be tested if we measure the speed links have when traveling downwards in different chains. Sounds fucking stupid though.

    • Brennon Brunet

      Brennon Brunet

      14 timmar sedan

      you sir have earned my subscription as I came here convinced steve mould was correct and am leaving this comment sure that you are correct, but not nearly as sure as I would like.

  2. The Truth

    The Truth

    55 sekunder sedan

    These 'science' doctors are so proud of themselves. Just like archaeologists, whose science is even less of a science.

  3. Axel

    Axel

    Minut sedan

    with the floor tests, it really looks like a whip. I don't know much about whips but I do think the way whips work could be part of the solution.

  4. Mattia Fiorindo

    Mattia Fiorindo

    Minut sedan

    The Mehdi Mould effect

  5. Mark Karpeles

    Mark Karpeles

    5 minuter sedan

    You guys are thinking too hard. The force pulling the chain is higher than Fg because the whole of the chain is pulling on the thing, also causing a force higher than Fg pulling on the elements. Each element then has a high inertia in flight causing it to fly higher as its being pulled until gravity wins again. A rope would be too light to produce that effect, but anything with enough weight and freedom of movements will. Inversly having no initial up movement and no container border restricting the direction would mean the effect wouldn't happen. If anything ElectroBOOM is closer.

  6. Thick SunRoof

    Thick SunRoof

    6 minuter sedan

    It looks like a whip effect but the whip has to fall forward and the balls down with gravity so they don't need a bigger size on on side and smaller and smaller goin forward

  7. Great Tesoros

    Great Tesoros

    8 minuter sedan

    Sorry, but I have the solution. it's a lever effect. the little stick in between the two balls is loose. so at the beginning one ball falling pushes the stick down in falling end which forces the ball at the other end up. at first the energy is low that it bounces of edge of glass until there is enough speed that it stays up.

  8. Thick SunRoof

    Thick SunRoof

    9 minuter sedan

    The number of balls that fall is higher then the number of balls that are pulled from the bowl in the same moment like the balls being pulled up are 10 and the balls falling down are 20 and this acts as a lever They don't have to pull the same number of balls up as the ones falling

    • Thick SunRoof

      Thick SunRoof

      2 minuter sedan

      So need more balls fallin to fall if you count it aritmetically

    • Thick SunRoof

      Thick SunRoof

      3 minuter sedan

      The one with the longer distance between balls have a higher resistance

  9. pixse hunter

    pixse hunter

    11 minuter sedan

    Works te same as a whip instead of using Height use speed so connect a moter on one side.more speed more of a arch

  10. Steven Hogue

    Steven Hogue

    13 minuter sedan

    You know, I love Steve - we share part of a name - but I think I am on team Mehdi

  11. Leandro

    Leandro

    22 minuter sedan

    Really reminds me of that wave that goes through a whip when you use it, I think it's the same effect

  12. John Thimakis

    John Thimakis

    27 minuter sedan

    Thanks for sharing. 😎👌🏼

  13. Zegarac Robert

    Zegarac Robert

    29 minuter sedan

    In his video chain broke twice, means there is substantial tension force inside chain, like in pressure gauges with bourdon tube (www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/bourdon-tube) , it wants to straighten that is used to drive needle to show us the pressure. This effect seems similar...

  14. Chandir

    Chandir

    34 minuter sedan

    I watched Mr mould's video first and thought he might be right and you're probably wrong, but you convinced me. Your explanation is the right one for sure.

  15. Mark Robinson

    Mark Robinson

    43 minuter sedan

    I think Mehdi has this one.

  16. J M

    J M

    56 minuter sedan

    Excellent 👌👏

  17. Andy Gardiner

    Andy Gardiner

    Timme sedan

    Excellent. I've never quite considered the Cambridge paper to fully explain this effect. Personally I'd ask some questions. 1) Does the initial "width" of the exit loop narrow as/if the height rises? 2) Can the exit loop form if not deliberately initiated by throwing upwards, or pre-forming the loop in the 2d test? 3) Does the loop form with the lead chain from a glass if you throw it upwards first? 4) The height of the loop seems constant - what happens if base is driven upwards to keep the surface mass at a constant height (would obviously have to find some electronics bod to create a container base that is driven upwards at the same rate that the surface layer drops)? I've no idea what these would prove but it seems to me there's more to this problem than obvious fixed linkages. However never discount the tiny linkages between bits of the assembly (such as the stiffness of the nylon cord).

  18. 700goku

    700goku

    Timme sedan

    I'm not an engineer or a scientist, but has anyone considered the end of the chain? seeing it reminded me of a bull-whip that the same amount of force as it rotates eventually reaches extreme speeds. So is it possible maybe it has something to do with a mechanic that also affects whips?

  19. Johan Van Zyl

    Johan Van Zyl

    Timme sedan

    Enjoy the lunch money. Register the " Electro Boom constant"

  20. The-Mike_D

    The-Mike_D

    Timme sedan

    Whip it, whip it good. An entire video about whip mechanics.

  21. NatGazer

    NatGazer

    Timme sedan

    You're the intuitive guy, he's the mathematician guy, what I see is that mathematicians think that if the equation is well solved, then the theory is correct, but they don't realise that the parameters and initial considerations define whether the end result is correct or not. I believe you are right

  22. mortz

    mortz

    Timme sedan

    you remind me of one of my highschool teachers. i miss him😢

  23. Munden

    Munden

    Timme sedan

    I find it shocking and hilarious that the scholarly testing of different chain types were completely uncontrolled from vessel to starting forces and trajectories. Like, what?

  24. T Michael

    T Michael

    Timme sedan

    The Mould Effect looks like the slinky effect.

  25. WAR dd

    WAR dd

    Timme sedan

    I made some computer simulations of this effect, I think you'll find the results interesting: se-one.info/cycle/f9JofZmCnqdwoJk/video

  26. bene gut

    bene gut

    Timme sedan

    can you please provide us your ringtone? I need it

  27. ThreeFourNineTwo

    ThreeFourNineTwo

    Timme sedan

    Mould Effect and Mehdi Constant - Sounds right somehow :D

  28. NNoradIV

    NNoradIV

    2 timmar sedan

    We need @smartereveryday on this.

  29. SmokeArroW

    SmokeArroW

    2 timmar sedan

    Next, Mehdi measures the speed of light. Do it! (if you know what i mean)

  30. cam the fool

    cam the fool

    2 timmar sedan

    Due to Steve repeatedly spreading misleading information about Fig Wasps, I'm inclined to think he's wrong about the Mould Effect also.

  31. kye langrehr

    kye langrehr

    2 timmar sedan

    I think the point of contention with he floor test is that the created arc never actually progresses to a point in which it is further up than previous chain where in the bead and beaker it is mostly momentum of a chain but the path of the chain is nudged to go higher using the building impulse supplied by the levering effect. so the thing that you are arguing exists the inertia of the chain being a major contributor you both actually agree on but Steve is asking an additional question and that is "what is altering the path that the chain should be taking thru its inertial reference frame to be higher then we would expect?"

  32. cukųr

    cukųr

    2 timmar sedan

    Salam ostad

  33. Darryl Hadfield

    Darryl Hadfield

    2 timmar sedan

    No guarantees, but I've reached out to Chris Hadfield, to see if he can rope in anyone with the ability to perhaps bring some ISS attention to this.

  34. Lonewolf 02323

    Lonewolf 02323

    2 timmar sedan

    Team Mehdi after watching both videos. I love this channel and always learn lots of new things from this guy.

  35. Chris Balch

    Chris Balch

    2 timmar sedan

    Its painfully obvious that you are correct.

  36. turtle

    turtle

    2 timmar sedan

    It's called the "Centrifugal Effect". You both lose and send me 10000 sents.

  37. Fan Gugel

    Fan Gugel

    2 timmar sedan

    Lovable, funny, intelligent, curious, and totally right!!!

  38. Murp

    Murp

    2 timmar sedan

    Look at how a whip works

  39. Joseph Miller

    Joseph Miller

    2 timmar sedan

    if the leverage effect was the force at work, it would either have to drive the chain up in a continuous weight-bearing column, or be sufficiently powerful enough to propel a single ball the height of the top of the loop. The first is impossible. the second highly implausible. In fact, the chain appears to be being PULLED upward by the transfer of energy happening at the top. I should check the video to see if the individual links appear to be collapsing to their smallest possible dimension.

  40. mrwatcherofmovies

    mrwatcherofmovies

    2 timmar sedan

    i think this should be called the electroboom effect

  41. Walter Comunello

    Walter Comunello

    2 timmar sedan

    so the "Mould effect" is basically inertia? anyway, I'm expecting a few scientific papers about this. until then, this is just a quarrel.

  42. Andromeda

    Andromeda

    2 timmar sedan

    Both videos are sponsored by KiwiCo... This "debate" is starting to seem like the plot behind Star Wars episode 1-3. KikiCo is the emperor.

  43. Sailing Señorita

    Sailing Señorita

    3 timmar sedan

    Centrifugal forces!

  44. Necker

    Necker

    3 timmar sedan

    so 100 dollars

  45. Ke Th

    Ke Th

    3 timmar sedan

    This explanation made way more sense to me and seems correct between the two viewpoints. This reminds me of "Mythbusters - 'Airplane on a Conveyor myth'". I began that episode under the notion the airplane could not take off. By the end of that episode, it "clicked" for me and I couldn't believe I ever thought it couldn't. This dispute feels the same where I thought Steve's solution was correct at first until it finally "clicked" with ElectroBOOM's. Now I can't even see Steve's explanation as true anymore and am even under the mindset how can no one NOT see the correct solution. Once it "clicks" for you, I feel most people would eventually see Mr. BOOM's solution as correct. If I could offer one piece of advice for Steve, Try your ideas with different mediums. I.e. Different containers, different types of chains. I think you will see friction plays a big part in your outcomes.

  46. Andy Cochrane

    Andy Cochrane

    3 timmar sedan

    I saw alot of similarities to the way a whip cracks you might want to look at some of the physics involved with that and i think that the joke about conseevation iv momentum actually has alot to do with why it happens it could be centrifugal force that pushes up and out on the top of the loop and because the circle isnt complete on the bottom there is no downward centrifugal forces and so the "circle" rises

  47. Leo Bento

    Leo Bento

    3 timmar sedan

    This reminds me of a toy I had when I was a kid called the "String Thing" It essentially does this perpetually with a loop of rainbow sting with a really similar arch shape.

  48. renxula

    renxula

    3 timmar sedan

    You crazy-butt! (8:50) I can't say about your explanation, but I think your 2D no-leverage examples poked Mould's explanation full of holes! That's all that's needed to kickstart better science around it. 👍

  49. Bielanski

    Bielanski

    3 timmar sedan

    @13:19 the helical escaping of the twisted link chain is a beautiful expression of the solution space for that chain's momentum.

  50. ferrabras

    ferrabras

    3 timmar sedan

    Yep, you are right. And I am almost prooving the Mehid time constant! hehe!

  51. Kl Sc

    Kl Sc

    3 timmar sedan

    👈👍❤️

  52. hughnibley

    hughnibley

    3 timmar sedan

    @ElectroBoom The Mehdi constant seems like a very close cousin, or even possibly roughly the same thing, as simple harmonic motion if no one has pointed this out. Just like a pendulum which will always swing at a constant speed given consistent gravity/friction, etc., I would expect the Medhi Constant would also be constant with a given chain and would only change with changes in gravity.

  53. You Name It Gaming

    You Name It Gaming

    3 timmar sedan

    My take is that it's all down to momentum and inertia. The inertia of the trailing links want to follow where the leading links were heading, the momentum of the leading links wants to pull the trailing links to where the leading links currently are, and it scales the unsupported length of the chain. As for the velocity being pretty consistent, inertia is likely the culprit too. Once the end of the chain hits the ground, the unsupported weight remains consistent and with it the gravitational forces exerted on the links during both the rise and fall. The gravitational overbalance should apply an accelerating force to the chain, but that would have to overcome the inertia of the unsupported chain in motion, and the inertia of the stationary chain as greater acceleration requires more energy or force. I could be way of though, as I'm no physicist. Great video by the way, I love your 2D testing method! I'm quite intrigued by this now, I'd love to see this effect tested with an unbalanced chain and/or in a vacuum.

  54. rehpotsirhic

    rehpotsirhic

    3 timmar sedan

    I am a Steve Mould subscriber and saw his video first, but having seen your arguments, I believe you might have beaten him with this one (and also won my subscription)

  55. Commissar Sydian

    Commissar Sydian

    3 timmar sedan

    11:34 this clip must have driven Mehdi crazy, XD even I had a few alarm bells go off when comparing the motion between the two chains

  56. Weaponized Emoticon

    Weaponized Emoticon

    3 timmar sedan

    I'm curious how much of the effect would show if there were a weight on the end of the string, and a single weight in the middle. It seems like it would be helpful. Instead of adding more variables like a longer chain, reducing them and seeing if the effect continues as you simplify toward one. Also, does the effect show more if started from the middle of a deep beaker? A deep beaker would force more upward momentum, though I don't think it is the primary reason for the increasing height of the chain, as the effect still happens with a flat surface.

  57. Alois Mahdal

    Alois Mahdal

    3 timmar sedan

    It should be called Mould effect if it's on ball chain and Saha.. Saga.. Sadaghdar Effect if it's on any other kind of chain.

  58. ɑʟpʜɑ ɱɑсʜɪиɑ

    ɑʟpʜɑ ɱɑсʜɪиɑ

    3 timmar sedan

    Yeah, I have officially joined the Mehdi school of thought on the matter. Too damn convincing not to.

  59. Jamie

    Jamie

    3 timmar sedan

    Sorry steve youve been beat

  60. ShadouWolf

    ShadouWolf

    4 timmar sedan

    I wonder what would happen if the chain was covered in a oil. Would the effect be higher? Would it help the bigger chains form the effect? Or would the reverse be true?

  61. Horusaem

    Horusaem

    4 timmar sedan

    cool when I find something everyone else doesn`t really underystand I`ll call it mehdi constant ;)

  62. Rodrigo Gruntmanis

    Rodrigo Gruntmanis

    4 timmar sedan

    I think, that what's going on here is Inertia. As the chain gets pulled down, it has more speed, it pull faster the beads from the glass.

  63. alexandroid

    alexandroid

    4 timmar sedan

    Neither of you brought up centrifugal force, but I think your explanation sounds more correct than Steve's.

  64. Noah Stout

    Noah Stout

    4 timmar sedan

    I love what SE-one has done to science. Soon gone will be the days of published papers. Instead, all thesi will be on videos!

  65. Lune Emberhide

    Lune Emberhide

    5 timmar sedan

    Is no one talking about the fact that this man has a central vacuum system? That's what I'm fascinated by.

  66. Fred Eisele

    Fred Eisele

    5 timmar sedan

    I remember a display at the Hands-On Museum in Ann Arbor. se-one.info/cycle/pNWifq-MjI2KobI/video It consisted of a long loop of chain around a simple pulley. It demonstrated that once a wave was established in the moving chain, so long as the chain continued to move the shape of the wave was stable. I have also seen this configuration when operating a chain hoist, specifically in the hand chain. se-one.info/cycle/rpynldqLonlwkdg/video I think in order to properly understand the Mould Effect this stable wave needs to be understood first.

  67. Derek Remington

    Derek Remington

    5 timmar sedan

    I love how your throwing shade at vertasium how he had to make a 10k wager and include many scientists resources to prove his video haha

  68. Meoli Red

    Meoli Red

    5 timmar sedan

    kinda looks like whip effect too.

  69. tsbrownie

    tsbrownie

    5 timmar sedan

    This sounds like the physics demo of a rope tied to a wall. If I suddenly accelerate the end of the rope down, I create a (long) wave along the rope (there's a hump in the rope). Closer to the wall, the hump is constrained by the shorter distance until a critical distance is reached and it will act like the chain. The acceleration of the rope end is replaced by gravity pulling the chain down. The constraining "wall" is the drag of the chain remaining in the dish. There's a standing wave on the rope because of the input of gravitational energy and the constrained length of the rope.

  70. Azeem Iqrah

    Azeem Iqrah

    5 timmar sedan

    Came here after Veritasium dispute...

  71. Mysterious codes

    Mysterious codes

    5 timmar sedan

    nice 3 verified youtubers

  72. Stefaan Van den Branden

    Stefaan Van den Branden

    5 timmar sedan

    @Kiwico sponsoring. To bad the EU parliament has made these crates double the price by introducing import costs.

  73. Kelton Rynard

    Kelton Rynard

    5 timmar sedan

    How is this any different than whipping a towel. When you do the 2D test it really reminds me of a whip cracking when it comes to the end of the chain.

  74. Oozora Kyou

    Oozora Kyou

    5 timmar sedan

    It feel weird when watching Mehdi in any video that don't have random electric shock.

  75. Omkar Rane

    Omkar Rane

    5 timmar sedan

    Well explained !!!! 👍🏻 you Must publish it

  76. Good vibes Collectibles

    Good vibes Collectibles

    5 timmar sedan

    You wouldn’t think this would be very hard to explain it works in the same principles as a whip when you crack a whip the body of the rope comes out leaving the end of the whip in as the whip extends outward it pulls the end of the whip with it and as the tip extends outward and cracks backwards you get the mold affect

  77. Christi Britton

    Christi Britton

    5 timmar sedan

    I liked the demonstration that mould effect works outside of force of gravity by setting up horizontal pattern that was set up the same for each type of chain. That different types of chain acted differently when vertical because the shape and connections respond differently to fluctuating values of gravity - up vs down. Horizontally the chain deals with friction which seems to be the same in all directions the chain moves. Delightful demonstration of physical reactions that do not seem to act logically.

  78. Eli Sonner

    Eli Sonner

    5 timmar sedan

    Isn’t this just a chain whip

  79. Tim Cronin

    Tim Cronin

    6 timmar sedan

    Mehdi: Mould effect? I'll show you Mould effect! *Proceeds to create the Mould effect everywhere with everything

  80. Blagatt

    Blagatt

    6 timmar sedan

    While this seems to me to be the correct model for the Mould effect (sorry Steve), I am under the impression that some characteristics of the chain can contribute to the effect and make it seem like they might be its main cause. In particular, I instinctively think that the chain's stiffness or rigidity could be one of those especially because it could help the chain overcome its recipient's edge and thus one of its sources of energy loss (through friction and structure of the chain getting stuck) as explained by Mehdi. If that's the case, then ball chains (being more rigid than their clip chains counterpart) are able to overcome the recipient's edge more easily by leveraging against itself and thus avoiding contact with the recipient and thus avoiding energy loss. This hypothesis is supported by the fact that the metal ball chains as seen in this video, which I see as a ball chain but more flexible, isn't able to display the Mould effect while in a recipient 15:00 but is able to do it in air 16:00.

  81. November Pierce

    November Pierce

    6 timmar sedan

    1:08 give gifts Girl: Nyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

  82. 243WW

    243WW

    6 timmar sedan

    You convince me.

  83. Kenneth Compton

    Kenneth Compton

    6 timmar sedan

    Your planar test bed was rather genius. I thought about how to test this phenomenon a few years ago and it never dawned on me to test it in two dimensions. Perhaps electrical engineers are overqualified for physics!

  84. SocketWrench

    SocketWrench

    6 timmar sedan

    23:30 on this Andrew Camarata video. se-one.info/cycle/eMZurL6go6J9Z6o/video

  85. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas

    6 timmar sedan

    Curvature of the arc is not symmetrical. It's tighter on the up side. So angular momentum's not balanced...? More outward (and upward) force on the tighter curvature side. Also, what about the momentum conservation for the lateral oscillations of the coiled chain being picked up? Is there a dynamic counter-force that shakes along the the up-stream...? Anyway. Your demonstrations showed (almost) static stability, with the spaced out weights. But the key aspect of the Mould effect is *increase* in height (or distance from the source of the chain).

  86. Suspence

    Suspence

    6 timmar sedan

    0:38 Damn Mehedheee what is your lunch looking like if it costs $100

  87. TRXlord 09

    TRXlord 09

    6 timmar sedan

    His poor daughter, it was a true scream of terror

  88. Freedom Nuke

    Freedom Nuke

    6 timmar sedan

    Garry kasparov if chess isnt discovered...

  89. HighHammer •

    HighHammer •

    7 timmar sedan

    Could you now look into the Vertasiums video about calculating the ‘one way’ speed of light, please? Your electronic ingenuities might be the key!!

  90. Connor Mackie

    Connor Mackie

    7 timmar sedan

    I remember watching Mehdi 4 years ago. 10 days ago SE-one recommended me one of his video and now I have been watching a lot of his videos because they are funny to watch and because i have learned a lot from watching the videos. THANKS MEHDI 😁😁

  91. gretel show

    gretel show

    7 timmar sedan

    You do not actually explain the effect... I can explain if you would like it's actually not complicated to me ...

  92. Aрсений Загравский

    Aрсений Загравский

    7 timmar sedan

    Nice parody to the veritasium

  93. Jignesh Agrawal

    Jignesh Agrawal

    7 timmar sedan

    I think your approach is better and but you didn't relay prove any point or did any derivation

  94. Jeff Jefferson

    Jeff Jefferson

    7 timmar sedan

    To the death

  95. Mike Lee

    Mike Lee

    7 timmar sedan

    Anybody else waiting for the chain to explode

  96. Marco’s Ways

    Marco’s Ways

    7 timmar sedan

    It seems like it is carrying it's weight arround the bend so it could not turn arround that fast

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